Off the Pole focuses on non-pole exercises – so you can learn about different training methods to help strengthen and balance your body. Here you can find different tips and tricks for equipment and training.
Today I’m joined by Màrion Crampe, an international Pole Star who has taught and performed all over the world, she has won championships, appeared on huge platforms such as the Ellen Degeneres show and continues to inspire hundreds of thousands across her social media.
Known for her passion and her energy I loved the opportunity to sit down with her and ask about her training and mindset practices.
Sarah: Welcome Marion Crampe, thank you so much for doing my podcast.
Márion: I’m very, very glad to contribute.
Sarah: Tell the people, where are you? I just asked you, we should have pressed record earlier.
Márion: Yeah, I’m in the Réunion island. It’s like an island near … It’s a French territory, and it’s near Madagascar, if you don’t really know where it is. It’s beautiful.
Sarah: I’ve seen some of your Instagram stories and things, and it looks amazing.
Márion: It’s absolutely beautiful.
Sarah: I was like, “She’s somewhere exotic, wherever she is.”
Márion: Yeah, and it’s very nice.
Sarah: Awesome. Well, I’m super happy to have you on. We did this quite last minute, so I haven’t even asked anyone if they have any questions for you, but I’ve got some questions for you, if you don’t mind.
I would like to know if you have any daily practises, is there anything that you wake up, every day, and you’re like, “This is what I have to do every day to feel human?”
Márion: Yes, I have. Actually, I wake up very early, so … Many people, if you ask a couple of pole dancers in the area, they would tell you, “Oh, Marion … At 9:00, she already have done the whole world.” So, I wake up like around … Mostly, every day, around 6 am, sometimes earlier, when I’m travelling, because of the jet lag and so.
The first thing I do is, I wake up, and I do my meditation. So, I meditate since over more than a year now, every day, it’s like my discipline. I started to meditate a long time ago, just a little few times, like 10 minutes, and now I can go for 30, 40, it depends on how much time I have. At the end, I think we always have time, if we want it. I don’t make myself an excuse, and actually, I like to meditate in the morning more than at night time.
I don’t know, it energizes me and also I feel like … you know some days I wake up and I’m like, “Mm, this one’s going to be interesting, challenging, maybe not as sweet as the other ones.” But meditation helps me to settle something peaceful and to get ready for everything that going to come after.
So, I really recommend … and you know so many people tell me, “But, I don’t know how to meditate, I can’t do it.” I can’t neither, I was like, no way. I’m like full on power, I will never be able to meditate, and actually there is not really teaching or there is not really needed to know how to do it, you just got to sit, close your eyes and find a point of like, to connect, and it can be your breathing or a picture or whatever. I recommend a lot of meditation app, that they help you at the beginning, to find your way, with people guiding you, and then you can find your way by yourself.
Yeah, I think it’s … I can see from the people that I meet every day more, that meditate, a big, big difference.
Sarah: Yeah, like how important do you think mindset is with your training. Obviously it’s going to help with your everyday life as well, but do you think it crosses over into your training practises as well?
Márion: Absolutely, absolutely. I find myself more efficient, and completely like, when I go to the studio, I’m full on power. I have something, I don’t know if it’s very like personal, but so many people ask me always like how do I stay passionate about my training and even yesterday, even my workshops were like, “Do you go to the studio by yourself and just train?” And I just love it. I just love it after more than ten years, I just absolutely love training, and it’s my job, because as you, I have to train to produce new content for my workshops and everything, but to be honest, it’s never, it’s like everyday I have a job that is not tasting like a job.
Sarah: Yeah. It’s not a chore to go to the studio. Have you … do you ever find days where you are, you get frustrated with your training? I know still that you may like feel passionate and go like … do you set goals for yourself that you then go towards, or it more just a spontaneous, this is what my body feels like doing today, or as you say you’re just trying to create new things for workshops and things.
Márion: First of all I do not only do pole dancing. I’m passionate about sports in general, so some days when I feel like, mm, today is no. So, I also like to swim, I swim a lot with my husband, I love to run a lot. I like to also bend my body, if you follow me…
Sarah: You do? I don’t think I’ve seen those. You should post more about that, people would be interested….(joke)
Márion: So, this is like really like, something well we’ll talk about it later, but it’s not something natural to me, so I have worked to get there. But about pole dancing … depends days, some days I’m like I’m going to do just dance, and it also it depends about for me, the weather is a big thing because I’m very suffering when it’s too cold, and some studios are not warm enough, I really have to adapt my training, because my skin just do not stick on the pole if I’m cold. So I prefer super warm Brazilian style, no air conditioning.
Márion: This could be something that’s going to change, but also sometimes, I’m like okay, I have a piece to train so I’m going to train hard on this, and most of the time I’m going to tell you the truth, most of the time, I just love to research and we can talk about this, like another topic later, but I don’t follow a lot of pole dancing through my social media and stuff, because I try to keep my brain fresh. So, I watch all the amazing pole dancers but my feed, for example in my Instagram, it’s more like painting, animals, cook that do amazing things, like all the kind of things that can show me something different than what I do and see every day.
Sarah: Yeah, cause you also take a lot of inspiration from shapes, like whether that be in nature, or from dancers and sculptures and things like that. Like I see a lot of the shapes you do, like you inspire, to then, you can almost see like once you look back, a lot of the time you’ll put them side by side, and you can literally see where you could almost just draw a pole down the middle of the sculpture or the shape and that’s kind of where the inspirations come from. It’s a really interesting way of looking at things.
Márion: It’s very interesting and you know because, I’m going to tell you the truth, like, I have like so many people think, oh Marion, she was a ballet dancer, or whatever. And I’m going to tell you the truth, I did dance, because as a petite girl I was like I want to be a dancer. But if you talk to my mom and I always say that, and people are like, “What?”, she would tell you, now I can tell you, but she was so bad. I wanted to dance, and you know I was like this little girl, like no. Try another thing.
But, I kept on going, and doing and to try and I think like belief has made where I am, also, and work for sure, but belief and I think I didn’t have and I still don’t have the strength of some people, or the flexibility, even if people think I’m extremely flexible, I have a lack of a lot of things. There is a lot of move I can’t do. So I try to find … and also I don’t want to really, I’m 35 years old, and I want to dance and move a long time, so I try to find things also that are not going to injure my body, because I think sometimes I would love to try some stuff but first most of the time I train alone, so I don’t have a friend to spot me. And second of all, I feel like my body, it’s not really shaped for that, or I would need like a real trainer, and to show me the right way, otherwise I will get a massive injury.
Márion: So I try to find a way … that’s why, one of my workshops is called Illusionists, because I always say, I create illusion. I create shapes and stuff that when you look at it, it looks fucking cool or whatever you think, but then when you try, you’re like, “Ha, but this is nothing.” I’m like, “Yes, I know.”
Sarah: Don’t tell anyone. Pretend it’s hard, as soon as you leave this workshop, we’re like, “Oh that was so hard.”
Márion: It works and I think it has been a (theme) in my workshops because I always say to the people, what you see on my Instagram and on the Instagram of most of the pole dancers you follow, is the …
Sarah: Finished product?
Márion: No, no, no, and also it’s, how to say, it’s like a panel of what I’m doing as an athlete and as for my own training. It’s not absolutely the reflection of what I’m going to teach you, because I can teach so many things different than just Rainbow Marchenko. And, actually, my workshops are pretty much, I do those moves in private, but all my workshops, there is no bendy, you don’t have to be bendy, you don’t have to be strong, you just have to come and try and I show you the technique to do the move.
And I think, and also so lately, like, if you try to do moves, lately I come with shapes that are not that difficult. And yes, they go completely viral and in the beginning I was like, “Oh interesting.” And I understand why, because so many people can attempt it, and I believe it’s very like, feeling very like empowering to be able to do something that you think only those people that train forever, every day, and they only do this every day, and then you can manage to do it too. So, I’m very glad to have find another way to express myself and to help people to be able to reproduce and try and so it’s very cool.
Sarah: I completely agree. I mean, I think the whole point of pole is that it’s achievable for everyone. Like you, of course, if you have a background in dance and gymnastics, it’s fantastic, but it also lets people who don’t have those backgrounds become dancers and gymnasts and acrobats and athletes, through just such a simple piece of apparatus. So, doing some of the more simple moves in inverted commas, but doing them beautifully and with intention and lovely lines and things, like, that’s almost such a better way to appreciate pole, than trying to do these insane, crazy tricks, which are like maybe like the top 1% do, of the pole world, but most people are just not at that level, because they don’t have the time.
Márion: I think it depends, maybe for your purpose, because you know, I do admire so much like the amazing people and all the amazing people I see every day, you know. I know, because you start pole dancing like me, long time ago, and we were doing a Butterfly and were like, “Oh my God.” And now I see and we’ve thought like now, it’s okay we’re not going to go anywhere else and now, and every day, there is a new thing and absolutely, I’m amazed, after it just depends what kind of … I’m really passionate about teaching and I do believe and I do want to think that it’s important, for me, as a teacher and as a human and as a performer, I like to care also about the people that don’t have those abilities yet, but I admire so much, and I wish I can do like a triple like …
Sarah: Back flip thing …
Márion: Yes, and Fongi and all those, there is some bendy tricks that I can’t do neither, even if I’m very flexible, all those things and I’m amazed and I’m glad we also have those people. I think it’s cool that there is things, a little bit from everybody.
Sarah: Yeah, I can … I look at those people doing those insane things as like from afar. Like, I respect and appreciate their pole dancing, but then I don’t aspire to look like that, because I know that it’s outside of the realms of what my body can achieve.
So, I think a lot of people feel a lot of pressure to do be able to do everything, but there’s so many things I can’t do on the pole, and it’s like becoming at peace with that, and like appreciating what you can do I think is a happier place to be.
Márion: Exactly, you know, in my workshops, I often say, so for instance, since a long, many years, so it’s okay if you don’t do all the tricks. It’s okay if like you just have to find your own way, but definitely if you don’t do a Bird of Paradise or if you don’t do a, I don’t know, like a Fongi, it doesn’t mean that you’re not a pole dancer or a performer.
Sarah: No exactly, I think that’s a good way to look at things. And it’s nice, when people who are going to look up to you so much can hear you say that, that I think it curries a lot more weight, than if they just have to try and tell it to themselves, so.
You’ve mentioned a lot about your passion for teaching and I know that you’re a very well respected and very well loved instructor. What qualities do you think are important when teaching pole, cause I think that it’s such … you need so many things to be a good pole instructor, it’s not just about doing the actual pole trick.
Márion: Okay, so for me, I’m going to tell you the truth, since I’m teaching and I’ve been teaching since a long time now, before that, maybe it’s interesting for you to know, I have been, so I study Sport University, I have been a teacher for disabled people, a Sports Educator for disabled people.
Sarah: Oh wow.
Márion: And then I also have been a fitness trainer, so I was working in the big clubs in Paris, like doing at 6 AM screaming on my microphone in front of 100 people, so that was my background, on teaching. And I think, I evolved as a teacher and I’m still evolving every workshops, I think. But definitely something that I feel now and I understand better, is that for me the most important … yes, pole dancing is a way, but it’s more about creating an experience, as humans and as like passionate about a thing that is pole dancing, it could be anything else.
I think there are so many points to be an instructor, in my opinion, but I think one of the most interesting and important … I don’t talk about teaching to kids or stuff like that, but the fact that you have to be aware you’re teaching to people, to individuals that have a life, they have problems, or not. They have a job, their beliefs and everything culture and so on, and most of all when you are like an international teacher you switch from Chile to whatever other country in the same week, so you have to adapt also to the culture, to the way you express things, because some things you going to say in Chile are going to received differently in Korea.
So you have to adapt a lot and to be like flexible, and it’s not understatement. It’s very interesting, very challenging, very demanding and also very rewarding and enriching. I think if you tell me, do you prefer to perform or to teach, definitely as you, I think we teach more than we perform as pole dancers, but I just love it so much.
Like this weekend, I just did like a mountain of workshops, and you know today, I went back to the studio and trained again, and my friend was like, “How the hell do you find the power?” And I’m like actually, I got so much power from people, that even if I gave so much, and practically lost my voice, because of so much energy, more than the things I do with my body, it’s so, it’s like sharing, it’s like a wave going back, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. Teaching is very amazing. I feel every class is evolving and you have to play with the tool that you have and adapt to the people, so yeah, it’s a lot.
And I’m very glad that lately more and more I’m teaching and people ask me to teach beginner classes and dance classes, even if I’m not a dancer, I will say small like expression movements for movement,. And I’m very glad because I think for a long time, since the last year, it has been a little bit like, we lost a little bit of the control about it, and many people were afraid to go to workshops because workshops became something only for the elite, for advanced people.
And actually most of the studio and you know it very well, I’m sure, most of the studio most of the people that come, they are not advanced. The advanced people are maybe a little piece of the cake, but another bigger one is the people that just start. And they have the same energy and the same like need to meet us and to share with us and to be able to come to the class.
And I actually I started teaching beginners, and when I was in Milan, in Milan Pole Dancing Studio, I was teaching mostly beginner classes. And I always say, you know, beginner classes is probably the most interesting and also demanding classes. You have to … for me, sometimes when I see new teacher teaching beginner classes, for me it’s a bit something wrong, because I think you need a lot of experience to teach beginners, because you have to bring them the right basement, so I think you develop this from experience. This is again my opinion, but I think it’s important.
Sarah: Yeah, no I would agree, I think beginners you’re almost taking someone who has not got as much body awareness, who doesn’t have the same physical strength, they don’t have the engagement, they don’t know how to move their body in a certain way. It’s almost better to start off teaching intermediate kind of level, where people are already going to be coming into your class with a knowledge of how to … how to kind of at least get started. And then it’s just trick breakdown, whereas beginners you’re almost cultivating like little baby pole dancers into the pole world, that need to be looked after in a slightly different way, so I would agree with that.
When you were a beginner, is there anything that you could … like if now you could speak back to your like beginner pole dancer self, is there anything that you would tell yourself?
Márion: I will do, actually, it’s interesting because I made a post about that and because somebody asked me, “If you had to talk to the Marion like a couple of years ago, what you would say to her?” You know what, I wouldn’t say anything, because I think, I think everything I went through, made who I am today, as pole dancer and as a human and as a woman, so I wouldn’t say anything. I would just like observe. And probably with a silly smile, like, “I know.”
Sarah: I know what’s coming, you’ll be okay.
Márion: I know, but there’s going to be sometimes you’re going to cry my friend. Sometimes you’re going to hate it, but you will, you have to go through this because even when people say, “And what about if you had started before?” Probably I would never be there, because I would have done mistakes that would have changed my whole thing.
You know, I’m a firm believer that everything happens, there is no coincidence and sometimes life is hard, I completely agree, but even in the hard things I think there is a reason, even it’s very hard to admit and to accept, there is always a reason.
Sarah: Yeah. Are there any specific obstacles … obviously if there’s ones that you wouldn’t want to share, that’s absolutely fine, but are there any obstacles that come to mind that you’ve had to go over that stand out in your mind, that you’re like, it was terrible at the time, but at the time, I feel like I’m a better like artist for going through that?
Márion: Yeah. When I start, I never really compete. I didn’t compete much, but when I start pole dancing it was probably my first experience. I did some gymnastic, but I was like, as I tell you, I was bad, so anyway, nothing was happening. That when I start, I think I was, I’m still a perfectionist and I still like perfect line, I do my video for a thousand million times. Even today, I see something like and I was saying to the girl, “This is the last one, eh?” She’s like Marion, “It’s been two hours, let’s stop.” So, I were not satisfied. But, it’s not that I’m not satisfied, but I know I can do better, which is different than before, I was like, “Ugh, this is shit.”
So I think I became more soft and more accepting with what I can do with my body and also with, for instance, in competition I was insane because I was like training so hard, so much, that I was putting so much pressure that at the end right before the competition it was not working the way I want because you know it’s kind of like you’re punching your own face, you know?
So, this is something … I think the day, I finally say, now I’m just going to do it for fun, and I’m going to tell you a little secret, that every time I perform, even when I perform I train and you can ask some friend of mine, even when I perform I’m ready months before. Even if it’s just for a studio showcase I’m very like this.
Sarah: Very prepared.
Márion: I like to be prepared. But, every time I go on stage, this is my little mantra, you know we all have little rituals, I have other ones, but this one I can share. Before the music starts, no matter what, I say loud to myself, “Just for fun.” Every time. So if you can hear me sometime, you’ll be like, “She’s so weird.” Well I am, but I say that to myself.
And I remember the first time I said that, I won the French Championship for the first time. It was my first competition. First time I went on stage and I say, “Today, it’s going to be just for fun.” And boom!
Sarah: Yeah, that took the kind of the heaviness of the competition, the pressure off you and you were reminding yourself that it’s actually just like why we do it. That’s a good mantra. I think a lot of people will benefit from that because so many people put so much pressure on themselves with competing and performances and … it should be, you’ve put a lot of work into it, so of course you should have …
Márion: Oh for sure.
Sarah: Anxiety to do a good job and to showcase yourself, but that can be overwhelming to the fact that you almost like stifle your performance and ruin it for yourself.
Márion: Exactly, because there is some people, we both know some amazing performer they have this, they are capable to make this like stress and competing thing, or performing like a power. For me, it’s my little thing, I need, like I have many other, but I won’t tell some because they’re, some are really like weird and I keep it for myself, but this one, I need it. And yeah, it might work for me and not for others.
Sarah: But that’s the thing it’s a good concept, regardless. Like even if those words weren’t what you needed, I think having that little mantra, like having a little word with yourself before you go on stage, can be really beneficial. As I say it ties back in with the whole mindset of, why mindset is so important for training and competing and all that things. If your mind isn’t right, then your body’s not going to follow, so.
Sarah: Do you have any … that was kind of thinking back of like an obstacle, but do you have any favourite performance or like memory that’s really stood out in your pole career? I’m sure you have got like a million because you travel so much, but is there any that stand out?
Márion: Yes, I have some for different reasons. I have a performance where I felt like the love of people and it was not about the piece. Most of the time it’s about, not where, it’s about with who it’s shared. But I have one piece, and actually I was talking about that with my friend here today, one piece, that if I have to say what is your favourite performance, it’s the one that my friend, Manuela Carneiro, prepared for me for the Swiss Pole Show, it was in 2012, I think.
We were performing, we were with Nadia, Natasha Wang, Lolo, Anastasia Sokolova. Who was there? A bunch of people, I cannot even remember, we were so many people performing. Saulo, I remember Saulo, and so many people I couldn’t even remember, but it was amazing day. And that piece, I think Manuela had the capacity, she’s an amazing choreographer first of all, if you need a choreographer, I think she’s an amazing one, and she knows me so well, because we are kind of like twin sisters.
That she never tried to make me dance like her, she took what I had and she create something from that. And this piece is very … I danced on one of my favourite band’s which is Bonobo and I think, I trained that piece so much hard as you can believe. But I felt so alive. I feel alive every time I dance, but I think that day I felt like wow, something on the top of it.
Sarah: Something clicked with that performance.
Márion: Yeah, I watch it sometimes, just to feel it.
Sarah: You mentioned earlier as well that you do a lot of swimming now with your husband and your flexibility journey has obviously come on hugely, like you weren’t someone that was, that started off in the pole industry with a huge amount of flexibility and now, you’re regarded as one of the much more bendy people that you know obviously has a lot of information and education in that area.
How have you found that training outside of pole, has helped pole? Is there anything specific that you’ve really had to tune into, or is it just more been a development of choice, like you wanted to move differently, so you chose swimming and the flexibility has obviously come with helping to reach different goals on the pole.
Márion: So, first of all, you know, it’s the same as, I would compare this as eating or whatever. I do what I feel. I eat what I like and I need it for, first of all, I think for keeping my passion really high. I think to do something else when I, some days I go swimming, and I don’t go pole dancing, the next day, I’m full on, I want to back to the studio and … so I’m thinking the little ban, that makes me want to go back again, you know?
And also I listen to my body, because some days my skin is painful or I don’t feel it, so I’m just going to do something else, some days I just don’t do anything because some days I’m just like, no today is not the day. So, I’m just going to listen, and I’m just not going to do anything, and it’s okay because it’s just today, and tomorrow there is another one. Hopefully.
And so, what I feel from, I think it’s mostly from this, I won’t say that I feel since I’m swimming and running I’m more performing on the pole. I think it’s just the whole package, but definitely more passionate and happy, not more but happy and it keeps my happiness high and even if it sounds crazy, but yes, I’m happy most of the time in my life, and it’s possible.
Sarah: That’s good, yeah.
Márion: Yeah and because I think sometimes people might question how this chick can be always happy. And well, it’s a process, it’s a work. Some days I also have my days and I just try to move on because happy is a better place than unhappy.
And yeah, about flexibility, I just love it so much. You know, I feel like I’m 35 years old in two weeks and I never felt so bendy in my whole life. I did not have my splits before I start pole dancing, definitely I think I was more destined to be more flexible than a strong one, but I think without work and dedication I wouldn’t have achieved like all the people that work hard strength or whatever, without work they would never be where they are today.
So I think it’s … I discover new things about my body and about the body itself and about my own one because it’s the one I’m in, so, it’s so amazing like I discover every day honestly, I feel new sensation. It’s amazing, I’m amazed every day. And one day I’m going to touch my butt with my head.
Sarah: One day, you’re so close. I don’t think that will ever happen for me, but I don’t train it so, that’s probably why it will never happen, but yeah. You, I have every … no doubt, sorry, that you will definitely do it.
Márion: You know, it’s something that is very … and I say to the, and maybe it’s going to be beneficial for everyone, something that I never have to tell to myself and I hear it so much because it’s very human to say, to do this, is to say, “Oh, I’m not enough this, I’m not enough that.” Because I say always to my students and my friends, “Your body can hear you.” And your mind, so when you say, “Oh I’m not flexible.” I’m sure the people that say that, they train less flexibility, because kind of the body say, “Oh, she say I’m not flexible.”
Sarah: Yeah, exactly.
Márion: Or saying, “Oh, I’m not that strong,” so you train less strength. It happens to me often also because, but not really, it’s just because of phase, just because it’s not my thing, but not because, trust me it took me six months to make like a chopper so, I was really bad.
Sarah: That’s a great point to end with, I think. The more positivity you put into your body and the more you look after it and love it, then you know, appreciate it for what it can do, then actually the more it gives back, rather than always being so hard on yourself and telling it what you can’t do.
And also being realistic. Like if you’re not training something you’re not going to get better at it. It isn’t just hoping that you’re suddenly going to be flexible, you do have to put the work in and then be … that will come too.
Márion: And even if you’re very flexible, because you know sometimes I for sure, you’ve had experience, I have people coming in, they’re like naturally flexible. That’s always what I say, like, when I wake up in the morning I’m not that chick from Instagram. My feet are really far from my hands. To be here. But there are some people they are very flexible naturally, and those people they also have like do you know, I hear, “Oh she’s so lucky, she’s flexible.” Trust me, she’s not more lucky than you, because sometimes very flexible people, naturally, they have to put double work to control that flexibility.
Sarah: Exactly, It could be opening them up to more injuries and all sorts, so everyone … there’s always a … the grass is greener on the other side kind of thing
Sarah: Everyone has their things, everyone has their weaknesses. Exactly.
Márion: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sarah: Fantastic. Would you have any final thoughts that you’d like to share before I let you go, because I know it’s getting late there now. We’re in different time zones.
Márion: Oh that’s fine, but well, first of all I really like want to say that I’m happy that I have found pole dancing and for the people who have never tried, you’ve just got to experience it to understand. And I understand that some people, they just, when they try it, they don’t like it. And it’s okay. Like because there is so many other things to do and what I’m very glad, besides the tricks and all the things, is this absolutely amazing community we have. It’s absolutely amazing. I have so many friends and I have an amazing family in the pole community and so, yes, there is some little drama but welcome to the human race, right?
Márion: And it’s not like some people say, “Oh, this pole community … ” No, no, no, we’re talking about humans. We all have different beliefs, we all have different culture. Something I’m going to tell you, you’re going to understand the way I say it and somebody in another part of the world, is going to feel offended about it. And I think what is important is to put a little bit of water in your own thoughts and to understand that people understand words different.
See yellow, a different yellow than you, even if yellow is like a standard colour, I would see it different than you, and I think sometimes we forget about this. And not as pole dancer, as humans, and I see a lot of things going on lately, and I think we have a little lake of this open mind about we’re all different, so if everybody can, who hear me today, I highly recommend to watch this amazing documentary and to show it to your family and to your friends, to anyone you feel could be receptive to it. It’s called Human, it’s from a French producer, which is called Arthus-Bertrand. You can find it on YouTube, if you email me, I can publish the link of this.
Sarah: I can put it on the link in the blog of this: Human
Márion: Yeah, I think on YouTube you’ll find it for free, and it’s three extended version, and I recommend to watch three of them. He went through the whole world for five years, and he asked questions, the same questions, to different humans and it’s very interesting how we have all different ways to see happiness or to see sexuality and whatever handicap, whatever. Whatever random thing. It’s very very interesting.
Márion: And he makes you think, he makes you cry a lot, but definitely makes you think and makes you think and come down a bit and feel more receptive to and respectful for everybody.
Sarah: Well that’s a great message, so we’ll be sure to link in everything down below, and I’ll also link into all of your social media and things like that, so that people can know where to find you, if they’re not already, which would be madness, but …
Thank you so much for giving me some of your time today, I really appreciate it. And I hope you have an amazing rest of your trip
Márion: Thank you so much.
Sarah: No worries, thank you.
Márion: Bye bye.
Sarah: Bye lovely.
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